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== Re:  Spill proof Lead-Acid? ==
 
== Re:  Spill proof Lead-Acid? ==
 
Thanks![[User:DavideAndrea|DavideAndrea]] 00:23, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 
Thanks![[User:DavideAndrea|DavideAndrea]] 00:23, 11 January 2007 (CST)
 +
 +
== Rotating 90deg for Sortable Table. ==
 +
 +
<div style="display:none;">
 +
This div does not appear withing the page but is used to define the references used below.
 +
If multiple ref tags were to appear within the table only the text from the first would be displayed.
 +
Thus we pre-define them here, the only side effect being that the first "a" backlink does nothing.
 +
 +
<ref name=ev_range>
 +
'''EV range [mi]''' Assuming <35 mph, 210 Wh/mile (260 Wh/mi from grid) per http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/08/solarpoweraugme.html, 1.5 miles is approximately the range with a fully charged stock battery pack</ref>
 +
 +
<ref name=phev_range>
 +
'''PHEV range [mi]''' During which the mileage is on the order of 100 mpg. Shows range as stated by organization.</ref>
 +
 +
<ref name=safety>
 +
'''Safety''' Safety in case of major accident
 +
# Many Lithium cells will burst in flames if penetrated. However, phosphate cathode LiIon cells (such as [http://www.valence.com/ Valence] and [http://www.a123systems.com/html/company.html A123]) are flame-proof.
 +
# SLA batteries contain lead and sulphuric acid but are spill-proof</ref>
 +
 +
<ref name=charge_time>
 +
'''Charge time [hours]''' From discharged to the point the pack will no longer be used in PHEV, to fully charged.
 +
:''(per Orbital, SLA require 8 hr taper -- done at least once every 3 days -- after near full charge, to reach 100% and prevent sulfation)''</ref>
 +
 +
<ref name=energy>
 +
'''Available energy [KWh]''' Because the [[DOD]] of the stock pack is limited by the Prius, only about 0.3 KWh of its energy is available (used). It is assumed that additional batteries are limited to a DOD range of:
 +
# SLA: 0% down to 50%,
 +
# Litium 0% down to 90%</ref>
 +
 +
<ref name=hymotion_range>
 +
'''Hymotion Range''' [[Hymotion]] states 50 km (30 miles) pure EV range. Yet 4.3 KWh calculates out to 15 miles.</ref>
 +
 +
<ref name=spare_tire>
 +
'''Spare Tire access''' No = original tire well is covered or occupied by the new battery pack.  The spare must be secured and stowed in the rear cargo space.</ref>
 +
 +
<ref name=pfc_regs>
 +
'''PiPrius''' notes:
 +
# The [[PiPrius]] PFC40h charger doubles at the DC-DC converter between the OEM and added battery packs.
 +
# BMS consists of a Rudman Reg Mark 3 on every battery, which fully protected each battery on charge mode and discharge mode.
 +
# The BMS is programmable with a laptop, with no security locks (open source).</ref>
 +
 +
<ref name=convert_service>
 +
'''Conversion service:''' done by the PHEV conversion company, at their location.
 +
'''Conversion kit:''' done by the owners in their hometown.</ref>
 +
 +
</div>
 +
{| class="collapsible" style="background:#F8EABA;text-align:center;width:100%;"
 +
! Comparison table: [[PHEV]] conversion and kit options for the [[Toyota Prius]]
 +
|-
 +
|
 +
<!-- {|class="wikitable sortable" -->
 +
<!-- !name!!number -->
 +
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="background:white;text-align:center;width:100%;"
 +
!'''Organization'''<br>''external websites''
 +
!'''Location'''
 +
!'''References'''<br>''local articles''
 +
!'''Product'''
 +
!'''Conv. service <ref name="convert_service"/>'''
 +
!'''Conversion kit <ref name="convert_service"/>'''
 +
!'''Status'''
 +
!'''# done so far'''
 +
!'''EV range [mi] <ref name=ev_range/>'''
 +
!'''PHEV range [mi] <ref name=phev_range/>'''
 +
!'''AC power'''
 +
!'''Charge time<br>[hours] <ref name=charge_time/>'''
 +
!'''Safety <ref name=safety/>'''
 +
!'''Additional<br>weight [kg]'''
 +
!'''Tire access <ref name=spare_tire/>'''
 +
!'''Cost [US$]'''
 +
!'''Topology'''
 +
!'''Pack energy [KWh]'''
 +
!'''Available energy<br>[KWh] <ref name=energy/>'''
 +
!'''Battery<br>type'''
 +
!'''Install time'''
 +
|-
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> [http://www.calcars.org/ CalCars] [http://www.electroenergyinc.com/ Electroenergy]
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> California, Connecticut
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> '''[[PriusPlus]]'''/[[PriusPlus History|History]],<br> [[Inaugural Maker Faire|Maker Faire]],<br> [http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/calcars-news/message/343 EEEI Prius]
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> [[PriusPlus]]
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> No
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> Yes
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> Ready<br>Docs in progress
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> 1st ever: 11/04<br>4 by 11/06 (1 NiMH,<br>1 chgd to PiPrius)
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> 10-12
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> 20+
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> 120-240 VAC
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> 3 to 80%<br>11 to 100% <ref name=charge_time/>
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> Flame-proof<br>Spill-proof
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> 130+
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> no
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> Batts: ~1K<br>Chgr: 0.9-2K<br>Sum: 4-7K+labor
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> Stock pack<br>+ new pack<br>w/contactor,<br>stock BMS,<br>CAN-View
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> 4.8
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> 2.4-3.8<br>+ 0.3 stock
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> 20 ea<br>BB Battery EVP20-12B<br>SLA (Sealed<br>Lead-Acid)
 +
|<!-- CalCars  --> currently<br>>2 weeks
 +
|-
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> [http://www.manzanitamicro.com/ Manzanita Micro]/<br>[http://www.piprius.com PiPrius]/<br>[http://plugincenter.com/ Advanced Vehicle Initiative]
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> Washington
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> '''[[PiPrius]]''',<br> [[PriusBlue]],<br> [[WhiteBird]],<br> [[GrayPearl]]
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> [[PiPrius]]
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> No
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> Yes
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> Development
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> 2
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> 10
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> 20-30
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> Universal:<br>90 to 300 Vac/Vdc
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> 3.0 @ 120 Vac/<br>0.3 @ 240 Vac <ref name=charge_time/>
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> Flame-proof<br>Spill-proof
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> ~150
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> no
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> Batts: 0.8K~1.2K+<br>Charger/DC-DC: ~1.8K<br>Target: ~ 10K
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> Stock pack<br>+ new pack<br>w/DC-DC,<br>stock BMS,<br>CAN-View <ref name=pfc_regs/>
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> 4.7
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> 4<br>+ 0.3 stock
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  --> 15 ea<br>Hawker EP26<br>SLA (Sealed<br>Lead-Acid)<br>or pack of choice
 +
|<!-- PiPrius  -->
 +
|-
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> [http://energycs.com/ EnergyCS]/<br>[http://w10.eleven2.com/~plugin/ Amberjac]
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS--> California / UK
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS--> '''[[EnergyCS]]''' /[[Amberjac]]:UK
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> [[EnergyCS]]
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> Yes
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> No
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> Production
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> 7
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> 30
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> 50
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> 120Vac
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> 9.0
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> Flame-proof<br>Spill-proof
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> 83
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> no
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> 40K now
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> new pack only,<br>new BMS
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> 9.0
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> 8
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> [http://www.valence.com/ Valence]<br>[http://www.valence.com/saphion.asp Saphion]<br>phosphate<br>cathode<br>LiIon cells<br>extracted from<br>[http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp U-Charge]<br>packs
 +
|<!-- EnergyCS --> future:<br>< 1day
 +
|-
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> [http://edrivesystems.com/ EDrive<br>Systems]
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> California
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> '''[[EDrive]]'''
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> [[EDrive]]
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> ?
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> ?
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> Development
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> 0
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> 32?
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> 60?
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> 120-240 VAC
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> 9.0
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> Through cell<br>separation
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> ?
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> yes
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> ?
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> new pack only,<br>new BMS
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> 8.5?
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> "Laptop"<br>Cobalt LiIon<br>18650 cells
 +
|<!-- EDrive  --> ?
 +
|-
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> [http://hymotion.com/ Hymotion]/<br>[http://www.a123systems.com/html/company.html A123]
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> Ontario
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> '''[[Hymotion]]'''
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> [[Hymotion|PHEV-L5]]
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> Yes, fleets
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> No
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> Production
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> 18
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> 15 <ref name=hymotion_range/>
 +
|<!-- Hymotion -->
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> 120 / 220 Vac
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> 5.5 / 4.0
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> Spill-proof
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> 72
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> no
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> 10K in 100s
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> Stock pack<br>+ new pack,<br>stock BMS
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> 5.0
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> 4<br>+ 0.3 stock
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> Lithium<br>polymer<br>(future:<br>A123 LiIon)
 +
|<!-- Hymotion --> < 1 day
 +
|-
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> [http://hybrids-plus.com/ Hybrids-Plus]
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> Colorado
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> '''[[Hybrids-Plus]]'''
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> [http://hybrids-plus.com/ht/Prius04-PHEV-15-pnr.html Prius-15] / [http://hybrids-plus.com/ht/Prius04-PHEV-30-pnr.html Prius-30]
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> Yes
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> Future
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> Production
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 3
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 15 / 30
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 25 / 50
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 120 Vac
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 5.5 / 9.0
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> Flame-proof<br>Spill-proof
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 21 / 81
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> yes
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 24K / 32K now
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> new pack only<br>new BMS
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 4.5 / 9.0
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 4 / 8
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 600 / 1200 ea<br>26650-size<br>iron-phosphate<br>cathode<br> LiIon cells
 +
|<!-- Hybrids+ --> 4 hrs / 1 day
 +
|-
 +
|}
 +
|- style="text-align:left;"
 +
|
 +
<div style="clear:right; float:right;">[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:Template:Prius PHEV Options|action=edit}} edit]</div>
 +
Notes:
 +
<references/>
 +
|}

Revision as of 08:31, 28 June 2007

This from Rich Rudman Manzanita Micro: " I have two systems installed. We have 10 +miles range EV only I am not sure what the test variables are for Phev running.

The same charger that does the dc/Dc does the Grid recharge. We can sustain 30 plus amps of grid power at 240VAC That's 7.2Kw. We have data logs on a recahrge at less than 25 minutes. So we are in the .3 hours recharge range.

The BMS is a Rudman Reg Mark 3 on every battery. It is fully protected on charge mode and discharge mode. Got the test done yesterday. Sweet operation. Oh yea the BMS is programmable with a laptop. With no security locks. I am doing this open source. We can and have extracted 4+ Kwhr from the add on pack.

The delivery cost is targeted at $10,000. I have my doubts that I can make the profit I want at this price. The brutal fact is anybody bragging about selling one of these kits for less than 10K is not looking at the bare bones costs of the hardware. I have to. since I am using my own funds, not some investors.

Rich Rudman Manzanita Micro" --DavideAndrea 14:17, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

Spill proof Lead-Acid?

Why are the Lead Acid battery spill proof? Yes, I know, they are sealed. But, in case of perforation, in an accident, won't the acid come out? DavideAndrea 21:00, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Re: Spill proof Lead-Acid?

No, it won't spill like a flooded cell would. The electrolyte is suspended in fiberglass mat separators (a.k.a. absorbent glass mat - AGM.) In theory, even if the battery is punctured, within the rated temperatures, it will not spill since the electrolyte is in the mat, although a solid acid powder will probably come out in small quantities, but not in a liquid. If the battery is heated beyond its rated temperature (overcharge, short, etc), the electrolyte becomes liquid and can (and usually does) leak. A big concern with a punctured battery are the lead plates and the lead powder that gets formed and comes out when punctured, which is a health concern (acid is too, but easier to deal with and clean up.)


Re: Spill proof Lead-Acid?

Thanks!DavideAndrea 00:23, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Rotating 90deg for Sortable Table.

This div does not appear withing the page but is used to define the references used below. If multiple ref tags were to appear within the table only the text from the first would be displayed. Thus we pre-define them here, the only side effect being that the first "a" backlink does nothing.

<ref name=ev_range> EV range [mi] Assuming <35 mph, 210 Wh/mile (260 Wh/mi from grid) per http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/08/solarpoweraugme.html, 1.5 miles is approximately the range with a fully charged stock battery pack</ref>

<ref name=phev_range> PHEV range [mi] During which the mileage is on the order of 100 mpg. Shows range as stated by organization.</ref>

<ref name=safety> Safety Safety in case of major accident

  1. Many Lithium cells will burst in flames if penetrated. However, phosphate cathode LiIon cells (such as Valence and A123) are flame-proof.
  2. SLA batteries contain lead and sulphuric acid but are spill-proof</ref>

<ref name=charge_time> Charge time [hours] From discharged to the point the pack will no longer be used in PHEV, to fully charged.

(per Orbital, SLA require 8 hr taper -- done at least once every 3 days -- after near full charge, to reach 100% and prevent sulfation)</ref>

<ref name=energy> Available energy [KWh] Because the DOD of the stock pack is limited by the Prius, only about 0.3 KWh of its energy is available (used). It is assumed that additional batteries are limited to a DOD range of:

  1. SLA: 0% down to 50%,
  2. Litium 0% down to 90%</ref>

<ref name=hymotion_range> Hymotion Range Hymotion states 50 km (30 miles) pure EV range. Yet 4.3 KWh calculates out to 15 miles.</ref>

<ref name=spare_tire> Spare Tire access No = original tire well is covered or occupied by the new battery pack. The spare must be secured and stowed in the rear cargo space.</ref>

<ref name=pfc_regs> PiPrius notes:

  1. The PiPrius PFC40h charger doubles at the DC-DC converter between the OEM and added battery packs.
  2. BMS consists of a Rudman Reg Mark 3 on every battery, which fully protected each battery on charge mode and discharge mode.
  3. The BMS is programmable with a laptop, with no security locks (open source).</ref>

<ref name=convert_service> Conversion service: done by the PHEV conversion company, at their location. Conversion kit: done by the owners in their hometown.</ref>

Comparison table: PHEV conversion and kit options for the Toyota Prius
Organization
external websites 		Location References
local articles 		Product Conv. service <ref name="convert_service"/> Conversion kit <ref name="convert_service"/> Status # done so far EV range [mi] <ref name=ev_range/> PHEV range [mi] <ref name=phev_range/> AC power Charge time
[hours] <ref name=charge_time/> 		Safety <ref name=safety/> Additional
weight [kg] 		Tire access <ref name=spare_tire/> Cost [US$] Topology Pack energy [KWh] Available energy
[KWh] <ref name=energy/> 		Battery
type 		Install time
CalCars Electroenergy California, Connecticut PriusPlus/History,
Maker Faire,
EEEI Prius 		PriusPlus No Yes Ready
Docs in progress 		1st ever: 11/04
4 by 11/06 (1 NiMH,
1 chgd to PiPrius) 		10-12 20+ 120-240 VAC 3 to 80%
11 to 100% <ref name=charge_time/> 		Flame-proof
Spill-proof 		130+ no Batts: ~1K
Chgr: 0.9-2K
Sum: 4-7K+labor 		Stock pack
+ new pack
w/contactor,
stock BMS,
CAN-View 		4.8 2.4-3.8
+ 0.3 stock 		20 ea
BB Battery EVP20-12B
SLA (Sealed
Lead-Acid) 		currently
>2 weeks
Manzanita Micro/
PiPrius/
Advanced Vehicle Initiative 		Washington PiPrius,
PriusBlue,
WhiteBird,
GrayPearl 		PiPrius No Yes Development 2 10 20-30 Universal:
90 to 300 Vac/Vdc 		3.0 @ 120 Vac/
0.3 @ 240 Vac <ref name=charge_time/> 		Flame-proof
Spill-proof 		~150 no Batts: 0.8K~1.2K+
Charger/DC-DC: ~1.8K
Target: ~ 10K 		Stock pack
+ new pack
w/DC-DC,
stock BMS,
CAN-View <ref name=pfc_regs/> 		4.7 4
+ 0.3 stock 		15 ea
Hawker EP26
SLA (Sealed
Lead-Acid)
or pack of choice
EnergyCS/
Amberjac 		California / UK EnergyCS /Amberjac:UK EnergyCS Yes No Production 7 30 50 120Vac 9.0 Flame-proof
Spill-proof 		83 no 40K now new pack only,
new BMS 		9.0 8 Valence
Saphion
phosphate
cathode
LiIon cells
extracted from
U-Charge
packs 		future:
< 1day
EDrive
Systems 		California EDrive EDrive ? ? Development 0 32? 60? 120-240 VAC 9.0 Through cell
separation 		? yes ? new pack only,
new BMS 		8.5? "Laptop"
Cobalt LiIon
18650 cells 		?
Hymotion/
A123 		Ontario Hymotion PHEV-L5 Yes, fleets No Production 18 15 <ref name=hymotion_range/> 120 / 220 Vac 5.5 / 4.0 Spill-proof 72 no 10K in 100s Stock pack
+ new pack,
stock BMS 		5.0 4
+ 0.3 stock 		Lithium
polymer
(future:
A123 LiIon) 		< 1 day
Hybrids-Plus Colorado Hybrids-Plus Prius-15 / Prius-30 Yes Future Production 3 15 / 30 25 / 50 120 Vac 5.5 / 9.0 Flame-proof
Spill-proof 		21 / 81 yes 24K / 32K now new pack only
new BMS 		4.5 / 9.0 4 / 8 600 / 1200 ea
26650-size
iron-phosphate
cathode
LiIon cells 		4 hrs / 1 day

Notes: <references/>

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